Threats against A.J. ?
July 19, 2007 – 11:04 pmNow is this very nice?
At one point Shadowhawk, someone who has identified himself as a long time friend of Gavin and Yvonne Frost, has threatened to physicaly assault me and cause further brain damage should I show up to court against Gavin and Yvonne Frost.
Shadowhawk said: “you better pack a lunch and bring your butt buddys with you to the courthouse cause when the Frosts bury you i wanna get an assault charge for adding more to your brain damage.. ”
He also states:
Shadowhawk said: “And as i type this those who support the Frosts are formulating our own strategys to deal with the Menace that is AJ DREW.. so sit back and watch the fireworks ..”
So Gavin and Yvonne Frost’s law suit in England fell through? Or is it if they don’t sue me, then Shadowhawk and his people will figure out a different time and place to assault me? Pereviously I had wondered about the accusations of violence being committed on behalf of Gavin and Yvonne Frost, but now I am starting to think this may be how they do business.
Someone who once spoke unkindly about Gavin and Yvonne Frost claimed that Isaac Bonewits was their “enforcer” or some such thing. Obviously, I am not so sure that is true but after being threatened by Shadowhawk and what ever mob he says he represents, I am certianly understanding how someone could think that Gavin and Yvonne Frost have such hench men to do their dirty work.
Shadowhawk called me a menace. I kind of like being a menace. I am not sure exactly what the qualifications are, but I am sure being menacing is certainly one of them. It makes me feel good. Now you might think that is a personality flaw, but consider my life right now. I am a brain-damaged blacksmith. I once was a fairly well known author in certain circles. Universities provided me with stiffens to speak before student bodies. I was flown to conventions and trade shows. And then smack!
The brain damage makes it so that I can barely read. If I manage to get through one paragraph, I am lost by the next paragraph because by the time I start reading it, I have forgotten what the first paragraph has said. I struggle to write again, but everything is so disjoined that it really does seem pointless. Recently, it has become clear that even my wife feels trying to write professionally again it is useless.
My mood swings have become so intolerable that I have taken my forum down from PaganNation.com, the website and online community that I founded. I feel that by having a personal forum there, my radical behavior was reflecting poorly on the members who are sane. All were being judged by my irrational behavior.
I can’t really speak in public. Between aphasia and not being able to say when I will be awake enough to speak and when I will not, I just decline invitations.
So here I am, confined to a personal Blog for any form of expression. Sure, I occasionally venture out when the control panel tells me someone has linked in. I scan their blog and add a comment here and there. But for the most part, I am restrained as it were. No books in current publication, no books pending publication, no newsletters, just a personal blog. Just one blog in millions upon millions of blogs on the Internet.
And yet, Shadowhawk has decided to come up with ways to deal with this great menace that is A.J. Drew. Yes, that makes me feel good and if that is a poor reflection on my personality, well then so be it. I am a brain damaged blacksmith, I do not need a pleasant personality to bang on hot metal and for the most part, that is what I am good for now a days.
This would be an example of why it is that I am kind of fed up with much of the Pagan community. Too much role playing. Too much fantasy.
20 Responses to “Threats against A.J. ?”
AJ
Is this in a personal letter to you???
You can report it to the police in a calm way. I repeat calm way. Depending on how it is written it may be serious or just a scare tactic. Who knows about some people? From what I have seen written not only about Gavin Frost but also by his followers I would be careful in dark alleys. Being afraid of the law? They I believe at this point need to be and after having read your post I think they are.
I am also sure that the Frosts were advised not to take this to England because they highly frown on child abuse there. It wouldn’t be you going to jail there! If they are dumb enough to take it to court here…….welllll they may find themselves in a different world to put it nicely.
So if you consider it a real threat then do go to the police about it and have several copies of the letter around, one should be with your lawyer also. That way the police and others have proof if something should happen.
Also keep in mind what Gavin Frost had done to others in earlier years.
Mandrake and the Frosts
http://www.angelfire.com/nt/dragon9/THECRAFT.html
{In February, 1978, we attended a regional Witchmeet held at the Sheradon Hotel in Washington, D.C. by Gavon Frost. At the entrance, Mrs Frost tried to keep us out, claiming we were one of Ayeisha’s covens. Ayeisha was already there, but apparently the Frosts didn’t want her to have any re-enforcements to face the large number of their own people present. I met Sybil Leek, and she knew about a dream I had had the night before about the two of us, wherein she was an inn-keeper of the Mysteries and I was a teacher riding a Dragon! Unfortunately, a train had recently derailed near her home, covering her with toxic gas. She looked very ill, and died soon afterwards. The day the train wreck occurred was the target date set by Frost for his followers to attack Sybil because she had publicly called him a fraud. I wasn’t as upset about him being a fraud as I was about what he was doing to little girls with dildos in the name of the Craft. The death of Sybil Leek was a great loss for the Craft, more than most will know. The Meet turned into a circus, with Gavin Frost grabbing Ayeisha by the throat and throwing her to the floor, while Frost’s people were calling everyone else names.}
By Rhiannon on Jul 25, 2007
So as I understand this report, we see a history of violence surrounding the Church and School of Wicca. Not only do I see their defenders, Shadowhawk, publicly threatening violence against me for standing against what they have taught, not only do we see claims that after comming out against Gavin Frost that a series of murder attempts were carried out against at least one person, but we also see someone reporting that Gavin Frost himself physicaly attacked someone over this matter.
Interesting…
By A.J. Drew on Jul 25, 2007
I thought you may find it interesting. I don’t know if this Mandrake is all there but it may be worth while to look him up and have a talk. He may be able to lead you to more sources……
What with the physical threats from Shawdowhawk
Walk softly and carry a big stick!!!!:)
By Rhiannon on Jul 25, 2007
I thought you should see this article too.
{Folks, this ain’t Silver Ravenwolf.
The most unusual section of the book is in Chapter IV, “Initiation and Fertility Services.” It describes an Initiation service (beginning on page 66) in which “the female novice is given the sacred phallus and the instruction sheet in Table 5 so that she can learn to insert and remove the phallus quickly and comfortably. She is also taught how she should lie and what she should do during the initiation ceremony.”
Table 5 (Instructions for Female Novice) begins thus:
You have been entrusted with two phalli; these are in our care until your initiation. We would like you to be initiated at the next coven meeting, which will take place on … This means that, excluding your menstruation time, you have three weeks to prepare your muscles for introitus. Your father or your sponsor will help you if you have any difficulties or pain.
On page 99 are the instructions for making the phalli:
Each female initiate, whether virgin or not, uses the phalli. Her sponsor makes them for her, using hardwood gathered as for an ankh except that it can be gathered at any season of the year. A 4-inch length of 3/4 inch diameter, and a 4-inch length of 1-1/4 inch diameter are required. Each piece is peeled, carved, and smoothed into the shape shown in Figure 30. A nylon cord is passed through the hole and is carefully knotted or spliced. The assembled phalli are boiled in beeswax …
Conclusion: This isn’t just an early version of The Craft. This is an aberration. These folks are the Jehovah’s Witnesses of Wicca.}
http://st09.startlogic.com/~pendrago/goodwitch.html
By Rhiannon on Jul 25, 2007
Looks like there are conflicting reports , heres one from someone who knows Gavin and knew Sybil for years
Where did you get this information? Skip and I were there for this one. Gavin did not grab Ayeisha by the throat, he slapped her because she was in his face insisting that Washington D.C. was HER territory and Gavin was at fault because he did not get her permission to hold the Witches Washington Weekend there. He apologized and Ayeisha got in his face. He backed off and she got in his face. So he slapped her.
Then he sat down and apologized to everyone for hours.
Sybil was there but she did not accuse Gavin of anything nor did she make any remarks about him and children. She did, however, drink pink champagne because it was her birthday. She even danced a little but not much because she was short of breath. Her mother and her private secretary were there Yes, Sybil did die. Years later. Partly from old age and partly from being gassed in England during the war - which is why she was short of breath.
I actually got to talk to her the next day and her only comment was that American Wiccans were silly and shallow.
sylvanus93 wrote:
By shadowhawk on Jul 26, 2007
So, you’re telling us slapping a woman is much better than grabbing her by the throat and throwing her to the floor? Snappy comeback, there Shadowhawk.
Perhaps you’d like to threaten me, as I also think the Frosts “Bible” is disgusting and arrogant! This kind of sick, twisted behavior makes us all look like a bunch of abhorrent pedophiles in the name of religion! I think you should show up at the courthouse. I think anyone that shows up in support of the Frosts methods of initiation should have a serious background check. How many children do you have? Did you initiate them? Or did you let Gavin and Yvonne do it for you?
By Shaitan on Jul 27, 2007
Slow down there Sparky, i was relating a different account then what was reported by Rhiannon. As far as what happened in 1978 if someone was constantly in my face as this woman obviously was in Gavins face, i would have done the same And if this goes to court i will be there with bells on. No i dont have kids. And how bout we check your background, how many skeletons are in your closet.You worry about your front porch before you start worrying about me Sparky
By shadowhawk on Jul 27, 2007
Ok, so now we have one person who doesnt much like Gavin Frost sayiing he has occasion to choke someone and throw them to the floor because he doesnt like the arguement going on and another person saying he slaps women in the face because he doesnt like the way they are arguing. I wasn’t there, but I am going to conclude that when Gavin Frost was bigger than a person, he felt comfortable using violence against them in an arguement.
Now that he is old, folk like Shadowhawk are threatening to carry on with his tradition of physical violence to prevent other authors from speaking against him (much like back in the day).
Other folk have come out against Gavin Frost and have claimed that attempts were made on their lives. And now we see people who claim that it was a practice of the Church and School of Wicca to target people and to ask folk in their church to attack them in one way or another as practice.
Well, it does seem Shadowhawk is a very good example of why I tend to believe that claim. Ah, if you don’t like what someone writes, just slap, choke, shoot, or otherwise attack them.
Why is this such a hoot? Check out these quotes from Gavin Frost concerning how folk who speak against him are not really Wiccan.
http://www.wicca.org/gavinandyvonne/teaser0603.html
Evidently, using physical violence is acceptable as demonstrated by his actions but talking about something, well we cant have that and be Wiccan now can we?
By A.J. Drew on Jul 27, 2007
“And if this goes to court i will be there with bells on. No i dont have kids. And how bout we check your background, how many skeletons are in your closet.You worry about your front porch before you start worrying about me Sparky”
I air out my closet regularly, Shadowhawk. Anyone who knows me knows that. And I try to live by a set of morals that doesn’t involve abusing a child’s mind and body for my own twisted ends. My front porch is being dirtied by sick and depraved individuals who claim to be part of a Pagan spiritual path and doing obsene things to children in the name of my spiritual path. I will not be alligned with such people.
By Shaitan on Jul 28, 2007
Shaitan once again like i say to Mr Drew.. Prove it.. Victims witnesses, physical evidence, those are the things needed to back up a claim of child rape and whatever else.. This is something that no one has brought to light.. If the Frosts are such monsters why has not one child or adult for that matter since then (1972)till now (2007)came forward and said anything like the things Mr Drew accuses them of doing. You know why no ones came forward because IT NEVER HAPPENED.. Gaving Frost has been involved in Witchcraft since the 50s and he has never been accused of this. So you tell me Shaitan.. why do you believe this, just because somethings written in a book. Just because a thing is written does not make it true. So now whats your response..?
By shadowhawk on Jul 28, 2007
Shadowhawk - I think what folk are upset about is that Gavin and Yvonne Frost has written about doing these things to children in a modern instructional. I believe they have done what they instruct because they seem to essentialy state as much. However, actually being involved in what they have instructed is not necessary for a reasonable person to think they are less than worthy of a place in our community.
By A.J. Drew on Jul 29, 2007
Ok as I stated in another blog, I am talking to a first hand witness and someone who was up close with it all. Someone who doesn’t give a red rats ass about the Frosts and is happy in their life as it is.
The Frosts are well known for their violence in the early days. People didn’t press charges because well what religion were they? They didn’t want to have the hassles that their beliefs would bring on them from the police.
I do believe background checks would be a very good idea. I am not afraid because I have already had several because of the organizations I have been in required such checks to be around children.
Have the Frosts molested children? I can’t say. Do I believe that what they write promotes it? Beyond a doubt!!! I also have faith that it would be seen as such in court. This is one reason why the Frosts have never taken anyone to court on this, because they would be found guilty.
So I say bring it on baby!
By Rhiannon on Jul 29, 2007
What you don’t understand Shadowhawk is that most of us don’t view WRITING ABOUT IT as any or much different than DOING IT. Whether they themselves sexually abused a child or not- I don’t know and can’t presume to even suggest. But they themselves clearly wrote a book *encouraging* it- which to me, as a parent, is EQUALLY abhorrant. Given what they wrote- do I have my questions as to whether they did it? Absolutely I do. But I’m not about to say they did or did not. I wasn’t there- I can’t know. But I DO know very well what they wrote and THAT is something I can stand up, hold in my hand and say is completely unacceptable.
By Solstice on Jul 29, 2007
Shadowhawk, whether they actually DID something or not, the filth they wrote in that book is just what non-Pagans hold up as proof that we’re all a bunch of “evil, twited freaks”. The last thing we need is a couple of fruit loops and their cult groupies giving them tangible proof of insanity and depravity! How much work has been done to try and explain that Pagans have values and morals just like every other religion–even Gavin and Yvonne themselves! Then I find out they wrote this garbage!?!? I read it, and an author wouldn’t go to the lengths and details they went to unless they stood by every word of it. And they stand by it to this day. So I think it’s time for the Pagan community to start tossing anyone using our religion to promote harm, especially to children! Hell, even Satanism wouldn’t accept the Frosts! I say, goodbye and good riddance!! I’m done playing with you now, you’re boring me.
By Shaitan on Jul 30, 2007
On Satanists and the Church of Satan, yep. The Church of Satan has very clear rules concerning children and they will not tolerate folk who teach what is contained in that book.
Although a very serious matter, there has to be a joke in there about Satan not wanting the Frosts.
By A.J. Drew on Jul 30, 2007
Shaitan it is you who are boring me.. You play so high and mighty when in reality you are kissing AJs ass just to make you look good. And you know nothing of who the Frosts are so sit down and shut up Sparky. Its Republican pagans like you that give the rest of us a bad name. So when Aj ends up in the Mental ward are you going to lead the charge against the Frosts.. I think not
By shadowhawk on Jul 30, 2007
I need more popcorn!!!!!
By Rhiannon on Jul 30, 2007
You have nothing- no credible support to use to back the Frosts so you resort to personal attacks and nastiness. My father always taught me that when one had nothing sensible or logical to say, (or if one were just plain stupid) they resorted to profanity and personal attacks. I don’t recall having ever seen you put up anything worthwhile to support your friends the Frosts. Hmmm- which is it- nothing sensible/logical to say or are you just plain stupid? That’s the best you can come up with to reply to the issues Shaitan raised?
Oh wait a minute… Perhaps you agree that it’s a good idea to fuck little girls and *that* is why you’re supporting them… Because you’re scared that when the Church and School of Wicca comes crumbling down, the spotlight will come to shine on *you* by association? Afraid of what’s lurking on your computer or in your closet?
By Solstice on Jul 31, 2007
Well, I have been reading through the posts here and I have to say that this is getting a little out of hand.
I am sorry to say but this all sounds like grade school squabble.
Shadowhawk: I have specifically re-read your posts because I had to laugh a few times. At one point you were saying that Shaitan, “knew nothing of the Frosts so sit down and shut up Sparky.” Well, does one need to know someone ‘personally’ in order to form an opinion about them? As an English Major, one can tell a lot about a person by what and how they write. Or are you simply pulling rank?
I could pull rank as well, but I won’t stoop as low as that because everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter the situation.
In another post you outright use profanity towards A.J.
Do I know the Frost’s personally? No. Do I know you personally? No. Do I want to? No. Why? Because no one that I have known or ever came across that was a spiritually strong individual, student of the GD, voodoo pracitioner, Native American Shaman, Freemason, Rosicrucian, etc. ever acted like you or would ever think of engaging in any practice that would harm a child in any way.
To say that the Frost’s have not committed any crime against children is acceptable on your part because you, apparently, know them personally. But answer me one thing: Why would they have something published that talks or describes such things if they have not actually partaken in it? Is it just a filler? Needed more words to fill the pages? Why couldn’t it have been something else? Obviously it is something that they really do believe in because they wouldn’t have written it otherwise. And if they did write it just because, then it was just to make a quick buck. That is why we have authors who write fiction. If the Frosts want to deny it, then every single reader of their books and every follower needs to be aware that what they wrote is not legit and holds no personal belief. What they wrote was just a way to get money.
But I think it is more than that.
You made the comment towards A.J. about karma and the fast approaching of Samhain. Well all I can say is: karma is something most ‘wiccans’ believe in like being reborn is to Christians. It is only there to make people feel better during their lifetime giving them hope of being reborn again and karma is there for when someone has done something wrong. *Little Peter threw a ball at my head today. But that’s okay cause karma will get him tomorrow in the form of a big baseball bat to his balls.”
I also believe that if you are making threats, whether by email, fax, phone, snail mail, etc., that in itself is a crime.
“You play so high and mighty when in reality you are kissing AJs ass just to make you look good.”
And you play a very good 14 year old whiner that believes everything someone else says because they are older, much wiser, and have a higher rank and because they are the high priestess of the flowery white poppy coven of amateurs who were initaited by (insert any form of ‘raven’ name here) that was initiated by (insert any form of ‘morrigan’ name here), that was initiated by the one true high priestess of all of Wicca.
ok, let me catch my breath. ;o)
“So when Aj ends up in the Mental ward are you going to lead the charge against the Frosts.. I think not”
Maybe Shaitan won’t personally, but now that A.J. has gotten this out into the open, trust me, there will be a lot of people after this one.
Think of this way, no one is debating the fact that the authors are teaching initiation by molestation. Which in all actuality, that is what is going on here. Let’s pretend the police walked in if there was an initiation going on like this. Would there be an arrest made? Would it be a crime? Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure this out.
There are only two options here. You either agree that molesting a child is appropriate, or you don’t. That is the bottom line here. Instead of throwing in past violent aggressions on people, let everyone be violent towards each other. What we need to focus on is what is really at hand.
If you wrote it, you obviously endorse it.
If you go to school and they are teaching you to molest kids, whether the teachers molest kids or not, the school will be shut down.
Darkest blessings to you!
Modesty
By Modesty on Aug 1, 2007
I hope my previous comment posts.
By Modesty on Aug 1, 2007