CAW - Ariel Monserrat
September 24, 2007 – 6:54 amOberon Zell, Ariel Monserrat, and Church of All Worlds:
Note – I have met many members of Church of All Worlds. In fact, the former (and now late) president was in one of my homes for a housewarming party. I harbor no ill will against members of Church of All Worlds and have supported the organization in word and in print for some time. However, I do take great issue with the current leadership of this organization. So please consider the many feelings some people have for the president of the United States while still loving my country and the people of my country.
A reader of my blog wrote to the online presence of the now defunct Green Egg magazine and was basicly told I have favricated the whole Frost matter, I am a nut case, and well …..
How dare I provide critical commentary concerning the Frosts and their book?
Here we see a Frost supporter saying I have been attacking the Frosts for years. Funny, last time I checked the Frost supporters were claiming that I was only attacking them now to advertise The International Real Witches Ball. The story changes so often, it gets rather confusing.
Email sent 9-16-07
“Merry Meet All: I highlighted this post because I wish to nip this in the bud, before any rumors get started.
A.J. Drew is a VERY sick man. He has been attacking the Frosts for years, on groundless assumptions made by him. The Frosts are in no way connected to anything resembling molestation of children. A.J. Drew has taken quotes out of context from the Frost’s book. He takes an innocent bit of information
and twists it horribly to make up his “factoids”.
Don’t believe one word he says. He has also attacked Oberon Zell-Ravenheart, a Pagan leader who has been very close friends with my husband [Tom Donohue] and myself for many years. Oberon is a great defender of children and detests child molesting. How Drew can make these accusations is beyond me, but he does. Read the whole blog and you can see that it is written in a vicious, far-fetched manner. The whole blog is designed to incite people and law enforcement. This guy is a sick, vicious and twisted individual, don’t believe a word he says.
I’m not defending the Frosts necessarily, as I don’t know them, but they have always had a good reputation in the Pagan community. I do know that they have never come close to molesting ANY child.
Please, do not spread any rumors from this guy, A.J. Drew. Innocent Pagan elders will have their reputations ruined, without any good cause.
Thank you,
Ariel Monserrat
Editor/Publisher
Green Egg (a Pagan online zine)
http://www.greeneggzine.com”
The above email was sent to a reader in response to an attempt to solicit attention to the matter of Gavin and Yvonne Frost’s book. What does Oberon Zell have to do with the matter? Well, nothing. Note how closely the email links my reported attacks on Oberon Zell with a reference to my “accusations” about Oberon Zell despite the fact that I have never said a thing about Oberon Zell and children other than I think his current claim to fame is an embarrasment.
“[Oberon Zell is]regarded as the inspiration for the fictional professor in the Harry Potter series.”
From an Interview with ABC Sydney, Australia - http://www.abc.net.au/sydney/stories/s1551407.htm
Perhaps Ariel Monserrat feels I attacked Oberon Zell because I have been rather clear that I feel his posing for ABC News in his Dumbledore outfit is rather ridiculous. Maybe she thinks that the letters I wrote to the now defunct Green Egg Magazine concerning the psudo-drugs they continued to promote as everything short of Shaman in a Bottle were an embarrassment. Maybe it is my jokes about the “Illustrious Council of the Grey”, an organization Patricia Telesco informed me was made up on the spot to promote Oberon Zells attempt to capitalize on the Harry Potter craze with a name taken from Babalon Five (a made for television Science Fiction show). Maybe it is the goat mutilations which were conducted to make so called unicorns.
But what would any of this have to do with Gavin and Yvonne Frost? Why would an “Editor/Publisher” of a magazine (now defunct I believe) ask the concerned reader not to repeat the “rumor” and say it is all out of context rather than read the book and decide for themselves? Or did she read the book and simply lie about its contents?
“Please, do not spread any rumors from this guy, A.J. Drew. Innocent Pagan elders will have their reputations ruined, without any good cause.” - From Ariel Monserrat email.
Not, please don’t believe this without reading the book for yourself. Just please don’t believe this. Why would she take such a stance?
I think it is a complete and total lack of journalistic ethics. Note her reference to not only Oberon Zell but to his friendship with Gavin Frost in a response to an email which had nothing to do with Oberon Zell. Note the unfounded accusations concerning the quotes being out of context when in reality I have quoted so much material from the book that the Frosts have sent a lawyer after me for copyright infringement.
“Don’t believe one word he says. He has also attacked Oberon Zell-Ravenheart…”
It seems what she is really saying is:
“Don’t believe one word he says [because] He has also attacked Oberon Zell-Ravenheart…”
I have dared to say that the great Oberon Zell looks silly in his Dumbledore outfit. I have dared to express discontent with the ridiculous antics of the folk who claim to be our leaders. So the wagons must be rounded up and the former pagan leaders must unite in defense of the horrible threat of this blogging blacksmith. After all, he is expressing an opinion and we can’t have that now can we?
“How Drew can make these accusations is beyond me, but he does.”
I hate to use the old if you aren’t with me you are against me line because this matter is not about me. In fact, this matter is not about the Frosts or their book. The problem, the sickness, as I see it is silence itself. It is our unwillingness to discuss this matter. In that respect, I would conclude that this woman who seems to represent the opinion of Church of All Worlds, is a perfect example of the sickness. I would except for the fact that she clearly has alterior motives.
But then, what else would you expect from an organization which has been almost in bed with Gavin and Yvonne Frost from the very onset. Wasn’t it 1995 when Oberon Zell and Gavin Frost started the creation of a commercial video concerning Church of All Worlds?
Now there is one thing I do find in this email that I agree with wholeheartedly. She advises that the reader not believe a word I say. I agree. Don’t believe my quotes are accurate. Go buy the book and read it for yourself. Make up your own mind. Just as I have always asked you to do.
Then again, you could ignore what I am saying as the Church of All Worlds seems to want you to do, and not make up your own mind.
11 Responses to “CAW - Ariel Monserrat”
Good grief. I’m beginning to think the vast majority of the so-called ‘Pagan community’ are blithering idiots. Oh no wait- I’ve been thinking that for awhile now since all this started. READ THE DAMN BOOK people! I have yet to see someone actually read it and respond from a place of being informed and maintain that they’re good upstanding ethical folk and that anyone is just ‘reading it wrong’.
Defend them, speak against them- honestly I don’t care- but do it after *reading for yourself* rather than going by what you hear, or later works that they’ve written or by the fact that they come off as ‘nice old people’.
(Maybe this rant should have been in MY blog LOL!) Sorry bout that LOL
By Solstice on Sep 24, 2007
sheesh!.. how low can ignorance go???
By gina on Sep 24, 2007
Solstice, yes I agree 100% about reading the book and have said that much since almost the start. Now for a while, I did go so far as to say that folk whould try to borrow it or get it from the library so that the Frosts would not recieve the profit, but now I do not see the Frosts or the book as the biggest problem. The biggest problem in our community are people like Ariel Monserrat, a magazine editor, who rather than reading the book and providing an opinion, rather than encouraging folk to read the book and decide for themselves, just discounts my asking folk to read the thing becasue I think a friend of her husband looks silly dressed like Dumbledore.
Seriously guys, what the hell is going on? This one is right up there with Peg Aloi who launched an attack on my asking folk to read the book in what now seems like retaliation for the WM3 matter she and I took different sides on.
It is like we are all back in highschool playing popularity contests rather than making up our own minds on matters.
Read the book and then discuss the book, not who is on whose side and who dresses silly for the press. Those things are an entirly different conversation.
By A.J. Drew on Sep 24, 2007
*sigh* And really, CAW and Oberon aren’t really the most stable, either. Every time I see him, I desperately want to ask him how the mermaid hunt went.
By KrystleKruncher on Sep 24, 2007
KrystleKruncher - I read about the great mermaid hunt, but all I found was information about how thats what they spent the unicorn money on. I dont remember who they sold thier mutilated goat to, wasn’t one of the large circuses or freak shows of the time?
Come one, come all, see what we can do when we cut parts off a goats head and put them back on where nature never thought to. Oh, this extra one… oh hell we threw that one away.
By A.J. Drew on Sep 24, 2007
Yeah, from what I heard, they sold the unicorns to Ringling Brothers/Barnum & Bailey, then used the fat wad of cash to go hunting mermaids in the Great Barrier Reef. Granted, that’s second-hand knowledge, but it’s from several different sources.
By KrystleKruncher on Sep 24, 2007
Mermaid hunt?..unicorn selling???? wtf????? Well now I can honestly say, I’ve seen it all…lmao…These people are begining to look ridiculous..Ringling Bros to my knowledge has never claimd to have purchased a unicorn..
By gina on Sep 26, 2007
Mermaid hunt?..unicorn selling???? wtf????? Well now I can honestly say, I’ve seen it all…lmao…These people are begining to look ridiculous..Ringling Bros to my knowledge has never claimd to have purchased a unicorn..
By gina on Sep 26, 2007
Mixed feelings here, as a former member of CAW. Lemme put my two cents in. Please read all the way through before ya roast me–you’ll find I’m largely in agreement.
The mermaid thing and the unicorn thing were part of an undertaking where Oberon & Co. were trying to figure out where some of the world’s myths come from, to see if they were based in reality at all and maybe to figure out whatever larger meanings they might have had. The unicorn thing, as bad as it sounds? Young goats’ horn buds have not attached to the skull yet. So it was a fairly simple matter to move them closer together on the kid’s head such that they appeared to be one horn when they grew out. It’s not much worse than, say, tagging a cow’s ear or branding a farm animal or putting a tattoo on it, or chipping a cat or a dog or getting same neutered or spayed… you get the idea. We do surgical stuff to animals all the time, and this wasn’t exactly a “mutilation.” As for the mermaids, they were specifically trying to find the source of a particular local myth in the South Pacific about mermaids, and they found out it was dugongs. Manatees.
They caught crap even from other CAW members about all that mess, and to this day some current and former CAWfolk shake their heads and tsk when reminded of same. It’s kind of sad, too, because I think imagination is something sadly lacking in most of the Pagan community and I think Oberon’s adventures were kind of a counterbalance to that. I envy him, actually. I wish I could go tooling off to learn more about the world’s peoples. I kinda can’t. I have responsibilities here.
The Grey Wizard thing? CAW’s always done stuff inspired by science fiction and most of the Pagan community knows that, so I’m kind of confused as to why it’s an issue now. I’ll agree that claiming to have inspired the character of Dumbledore is silly, but I think Oberon’s mind has been kind of off for a while now. I don’t mean in the sense of hunting mermaids or making unicorns, which is going to be weird to most people regardless–there was other stuff going on having to do with the collapse of CAW in the late nineties and early aughts that he was at the epicenter of, and it was kinda ugly. ‘Nuff said, I wasn’t there at ground zero–I only saw the fallout on CAW email lists.
That said, I wanted to add my two cents about the whole CAW thing vis-à-vis child molestation. I will not say that there is a blatant pedophile culture going on there… that’d be a blatant lie. But, I will say I think that in some cases, with some particular individuals who were or are in the organization… um… how to put this… There is something about having an “alternative sexuality” culture that just attracts the wackos. I’m all about the “safe, sane, and consensual” aspect of altsexuality BUT some people apparently think there are loopholes for things like consensual incest and adult people banging their adult siblings and that kind of thing.
I read an issue of Green Egg several years ago in which a young woman wrote an article about what it’s like growing up in a “tribe” like CAW. She mentioned how it seemed that all the adult men were lined up slavering, waiting for her to turn eighteen. That’s creepy. I was involved with a guy who did distance interfaith seminary and who mentioned the whole issue of mandatory reporting in his blog, and someone from CAW piped up about how he might have to report an adult having a relationship with an underage teenager and how messed up that was–the having to report, not the relationship. Years before that I witnessed Oberon in an email list discussion, in direct response to my saying that incest ought to remain taboo, defending the idea of adults having incestuous relationships with one another.
Nothing blatantly saying “yes, let’s have sex with our kids” but there seems to be a lack of understanding of social taboos and why we have them in the first place. I also saw a lot of sexism going on, and a lot of tolerance of what in monogamous context would be blatant cheating, lying, and disregard of an existing partner’s feelings all in the name of getting laid and “practicing an alternative lifestyle.”
So it’s not much of a surprise to me that some elements formerly of CAW* are reaching out to the Frosts now. In fact it’s causing splintering within these groups and I find myself wanting to say to the folks who left, Why bother? You knew what these people were, and you put up with it as long as it didn’t squick you. This is what you get for putting lifestyles above basic morality. Sucks, don’t it?
I still identify as Pagan but I’m reeeally skittish about belonging to any groups anymore, because this kind of crap goes on. There seems to be a serious dearth of critical thinking going on at enormous social cost, and I don’t like it one little bit. I now understand why so many Pagans are solitary, and it really makes me sad.
—–
*(Spiritweavers is not affiliated with Oberon’s “rebirth” of CAW at this point and as far as I’m concerned they aren’t CAW at all, they tore it up beyond recognition and I’m still somewhat bitter about that. So take my words with a grain of salt, because I’m not unbiased here.)
By Dana on Sep 27, 2007
Diana - My wife believes the problem you observed is inherent to most of the pagan community. She likes to say that our minds are so open, that our brains are falling out. Moreover, most pagan folk feel like outcasts. We have turned to the pagan communit for acceptance of our, uh abnormalities (myself included). She thinks, and after reading your observation I am starting to agree, that we tend to be afraid of rejecting somoen elses abnormalities because we might wind up not having ours accepted.
I am very confused and need help understanding who you are saying are the old portions of CAW and who are the new. Are you saying that this blind support of the Frosts by Ariel is from an old / former CAW member and you do not think of this body as the true CAW?
There is a LOT of that going on. As I understand the events. The leadership of CAW moved from a group in CA to the group in OH. Oberon anounced his workshop at Starwood was to be on the rise and downfall of CAW. As the organization was still up and running, the then current leadership was rather angry. A war of words started, the presentation took place.
Shortly there after, the legaly recognized and voted in body of government ruling CAW voted to disband and unincorporate. They made the vote, it passed, and they then resigned en mass leaving the president to finish closing things down.
From reading statements by Oberon Zell and other CAW officers, the president died and Oberon Zell notified the IRS of an address change, thus was back in power. That or he was voted in by a bunch of people who had no legal authority to do so.
Now a days, I read material referring to the Ohio government of CAW as a “chapter” of CAW. It is all very, very confusing as from what I understand the organization was CLOSED by its legaly voted leadership. I have no clue how someone else could send in a change of address and declair it theirs.
Now I dont know which group was a better leadership team. Not taking sides. Just confused as hell as to how all this can happen.
On Oberon Zell, I really don’t think anything I have ever said about him can really be considered an attack or hostile. I think he is funny, even rediculous. I think he is embarrassing at times. But I don’t think I have ever been hostile. I think I have expressed opinions which are widly shared. He is just flat silly.
On the goats - My son is not circumcized, my schnauzer did not have her ears cropped, and I do not eat meat so I don’t have much of an opiniion on braning animals as I might over look it if it wasnt later followed by a sledge hammer to the head after a horrible life in a box. So while you might think the word mutilation sounds a bit strong, well you should hear what I have to say about Kentucky Fried Chicken.
Grey Wizard thing - I think I have failed to explain my humor in this. I expressed to a member of the Illustrous Council of the Grey (Patricia Telesco) how silly I thought the whole thing was because the book is given credentials by an organization that does not exist. She argued I was wrong because the organization was created to accredit the book. My head then spun around and I pulled out all of my hair.
I do not have an issue with being inspired by modern science fiction. I love science fiction. But to imply that something you borrowed out of a modern science fiction TV show is an ancient order of some sort, well that is funny.
By A.J. Drew on Sep 27, 2007