James Edward Haidle - Another Pagan Pervert
February 11, 2008 – 2:23 pmIn October of 2005, many pagans were getting ready for Samhain. Maybe they were packing for a convention or other gathering where the counter culture that flys the banners of alternative religions gather. Such was not the case for 39-year-old James Edward Haidle and his teenage girl friend.
“During a Wiccan ceremony last year, 39-year-old James Edward Haidle sat with a teenage girl next to a burning candle. He and the teen, a minor, were both naked. “
The man was sentenced to 2 ½ years in jail for “on two counts of indecent liberties” at the time of this article which indicated there were additional charges expected to be filed:
“Suffolk Circuit Court on four counts of indecent liberties with a child and 50 counts of producing child pornography.”
http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=93977&ran=58192
In an interesting twist, the man seems to indicate that his involvement in Wicca was the root of his crimes. He apologized to his teen age victim and her family.
“He said he has since renounced Wicca, a neopagan religion often called the “Craft of the Wise.” Haidle said he now leads Bible study in jail.”
He was later convicted of taking pictures of teen age girls and posting them to he internet.
Where many Wiccans and Pagans alike are probably outraged by an indication that their religion was at fault, as the number of people who involve Wicca and other modern pagan religions in their preditorial conduct rises, I am forced to wonder if there is not an undercurrent of tolerance for such things at work in our community.
Jill Medicine Heart Combs ( Once Vice President of CUUPS, current Regional Coordinator of the Pagan Pride Project / PPP) in part responded:
“Jim’s a moron. I have thought about printing out everyone’s responses regarding the posting of this news article and send it to poor old Vickie so she knew that we, as a pagan people, don’t tolerate this kind of BS in our community and if her church wants him back, they are MORE then welcome to! “
http://www.witchvox.com/wren/wn_detaila.html?id=14138
Many others were equally outraged. In fact, the above cited URL is from the popular internet service Witchvox. But are out leaders truly outraged or is it just a public face?
With this article at the Witches’ Voice we might think that the organization strongly opposes such behavior. However, you might recall that the Media Cordinator of The Witches’ Voice has been a very strong supporter of Gavin and Yvonne Frost. Jill Medicine Heart Combs has been rather supportive of Gavin and Yvonne Frost within the Frost’s blog and both have gone out of their way to attack me for my expression of disgust at what the Frosts have written and continue to distribute.
http://ajdrew.blogs.pagannation.com/defrost-please-read/
I do not believe the expression of public outrage after things like this take place are nearly as effective as standing as a community and stating that such things are not welcome in our community. Just who was it that Haidle and his naked teenager were siting with in that Wiccan ceremony?
As I recall, in discussions with Peg Aloe, Media Coordinator for the Witches Voice, she indicated that she saw nothing wrong with 13 year olds running naked without parental supervision at various festivals. I believe we were speaking about either Starwood or Sirius Rising (festivals at which the Frosts have often spoke). As I understand the policy being discussed, people under the age of 18 had to attend with a parent or legal guardian, but if the person is over the age of 12, that child may roam to their heart’s content.
My argument was that it is not very safe to allow a 13 year old to run naked without parent in hand at a festival, much less one where the recreational use of drugs and alcohol is prolific. As I recall, Peg Aloe was outraged at my stance, believing such was oppressive of our youth.
Peg Aloi (with the screen name Nightshy) said: “I am not suggesting children run around naked without adult supervision, hence my earlier reference to the rules of Brushwood which state adults must supervise their children under 12 AT ALL TIMES”
http://pagannation.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showthreaded/Number/58074
I submit that a 13 year old is a child and that so were the victims of 39-year-old James Edward Haidle.
At that point, Peg Aloi (again as Nightshy) announced publicly that: “I understand you are estranged from one of your children. So your advice on parenting does not really hold much credence, in my opinion.”
This was later followed by Gavin Frost starting discussions indicating my daughter had a restraining order against me, that I was a drug felon, that I had another daughter other than my Aubreyahna, and other attacks against my character. Rather than addressing the issue, that I believe a 13 year old is not an adult; the conversation turned into an interpersonal attack.
In defending Gavin and Yvonne Frost, Isaac Bonewits once posted to the Frosts blog:
“I will also point out that until very recently in human history, puberty didn’t start until the age of 15 or 16, which makes the idea of helping adolescents have a pleasant introduction to their sexuality dramatically different from the molesting of 10 year-olds.”
http://gavinandyvonne.blogspot.com/2007/06/witch-wars-and-their-cost.html
Again I wonder about the people in that Wiccan ceremony where Haidle and his teenage girl friend sat. I wonder who else was involved in that ceremony, who they sat with. It seems that from the public posts and public defense of the Frost’s book that Peg Aloi, Isaac Bonewits, Jill Medicine Heart Combs, and other leaders in the pagan community would not have had a problem with it until such time as it became public information.
So while I in no way think the man’s actions are excused by his decision to denounce Wicca and once again become Christian, I can certainly see how he would believe that the leaders of the pagan community might tolerate, if not encourage, his behavior.
5 Responses to “James Edward Haidle - Another Pagan Pervert”
“At that point, Peg Aloi (again as Nightshy) announced publicly that: “I understand you are estranged from one of your children. So your advice on parenting does not really hold much credence, in my opinion.”
This was later followed by Gavin Frost starting discussions indicating my daughter had a restraining order against me, that I was a drug felon, that I had another daughter other than my Aubreyahna, and other attacks against my character. Rather than addressing the issue, that I believe a 13 year old is not an adult; the conversation turned into an interpersonal attack.”
What is so sad is the fact that they cant even defend their own actions, so instead have to resort to personal attacks to detour everyones attention off of the actual topic at hand. I have seen this a lot with Frost supporters.
The thing about this whole situation of children being involved in such festivals scares me. I have never gone to a public ritual/festival and things like this make me wonder if I actually want to ever attend one. This type of message that the Wiccan community is sending out is attracting more perverts than pagans. It is scaring off the people who wish to get a feel for the pagan community and its bringing the attention of those who dont belong. Wicca is like the gateway pagan faith, most start out with the basic wiccan principals and then branch out into other forms of paganism. So by scaring off these searching wiccans, we scare off the chance at gaining new members of other faiths as well. The sexual pervertedness that is going on in the name of ‘Wicca’ is in all actuality harming all forms of the pagan community, not just the wiccans themselves. Blessings
By Briena on Feb 22, 2008
Briena (ha, spelled it right) - Everyone thinks their children are smarter than others. When it comes to his daddy, I sometimes think my daughter is smarter than her parents. But with all of her intelligence, when a discussion doesn’t go her way she resorts to: “You’re a bad daddy”, thus attacking the source of the conversation rather than the topic. It doesn’t tend to happen when I simply tell her to do something she doesn’t want to do. When I do that, she just kind of pouts. It is when we have a conversation about why she shouldn’t do something she wants to do. Not when I tell her she has to go to bed, but when we talk about how much she loves school and I explain to her that if she doesn’t go to bed that she will be too tired to go to school. Then its bad daddy time.
I learn so much from my 3 year old. In the bad daddy routine, I have learned that when it becomes obvious that a person can no longer attack the message, they will attack the messenger. In adult terms, I think that at he point adults realize they can not win an argument in the public eye, they change the argument to something they think they can win. In the case of Peg Aloi, it started to become obvious that the majority of people involved in the conversation thought that 13 year olds are not adult enough to run naked without a parent immediately present. So she decided to simply attack me, fabricating something so that she could announce that my opinion wasn’t to be taken seriously because of that fabrication.
If Adolph Hitler said water was wet, being the evil that he was does not make water dry. However, if you say water is wet after Adolph Hitler said it; well then you must be a Nazi.
By A.J. Drew on Feb 22, 2008
I get the same thing when I argue the bible with christian fundies, or the qur’an with muslims. I make a point and then it turns into something like “OH YOURE JUST A FAT DEVIL WORSHIPER” or something along those lines. I laugh at them and tell them they are ignorant and immature and move on. But when it is public like it was and is with you and your wife its a little different because they slander you both in the whole community. I dont know what to do in your situation, as I have never had to deal with it in such extreams. I am happy that you both are still together, and that the stress of it all has not caused your marriage to fall apart. I support you and your fights with the pagan community. Blessings
By Briena on Feb 23, 2008
I have had contact with this guy in the past and with many people that were friends with him and he seems to draw weirdos to him. I don’t know where “Jill Medicine Heart” gets off calling the pot black here but she isn’t any better off than he is. I gave up on Wicca after meeting this guy, Ms. Medicine Heart and some of their friends. They were all perverted in their own ways. As for “Poor Vickie” well any woman who would stand up for a guy who had sex with BOTH her daughters while claiming to love her with all her heart is a sick puppy herself. I think the whole mess stinks and no one is any better off than anyone else–Wiccan or Pseudo-Christian.
By Know This Man on Apr 15, 2008