“…the real problem is the immoral act of homosexuality”
April 6, 2008 – 11:10 am“…the real problem is the immoral act of homosexuality”That is a quote from an email reportedly written by the once head of the tradition founded by Dr. Raymond Buckland, Seax Wicca, in 2003 as reported by a man named Daven on a website called Daven’s Journal. Davin also reports that Dr. Raymond Buckland, despite publicly changing his own homophobic statements of the 1970s, privately wrote to that former head of Seax Wicca in part to tell him that he had nothing to apologize for. Although what follows will list some of the many things that were said by Dr. Buckland and the man Dr. Buckland appointed to head his tradition, the point of this observation is far removed from that specific debate. So far removed, that his is going to be a very long and winding story which has a rather striking conclusion at the end. But please do not scroll down to the end as it will have no meaning without understanding the things that led to it.
I would like to talk about a man named Daven and a website called Daven’s Journal. But in talking about Daven and his website, I am not so much talking about him or it specifically. More about what can be accomplished if we use our powers for good. That is my current favorite saying:
Can you imagine what I could do if I used my mighty powers for good?
The mighty powers part as well as the overall pompous tone of the question is intended for comic relief. The question contains a statement hidden in plain sight. It is the statement that we can accomplish so much if our efforts were righteous. In Christian scripture the concept is represented as:
“But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.” —Matthew 19:26The state of Ohio removed the Christian specific reference and used as its motto:“With God, all things are possible” – The motto of the state of Ohio.
Like the founders of my great nation, the United States of America, the state of Ohio feels the Constitution of the United States of America with its many Amendments does not forbid generic religious beliefs from guiding our law makers. Why else would the First Amendment have been so specific as to say that it was speaking to an institution of religion?
The idea is not new and certainly it has been abused, but what principle is entirely new and what principle has not been abused? In medieval Europe, it was believed that if two knights did battle that God (OB, Gods, Goddess, what ever) would strengthen the arm and sword of the one whom is righteous against the one who was not. I believe this to be true in principle, however to see the truth in the matter one must view things threw eyes, which we mortals simply do not have. We humans see the trials and tribulation of the moment, not the long haul. So where we might see a disabling accident, when viewed over the course of our entire lifetime or perhaps many lifetimes; the factors which seem so grim at the moment might in fact lead to an overall good.
“You can’t make an omelet without cracking some eggs.” – An unknown but wise philosopher.
I first hear of Daven and his Journal when a man by the name of Mark Ventimiglia rose to the position of head of Raymond Buckland’s Seax Wicca. Although Daven’s page states that he believes Mark Ventimigilia forged his status in Seax Wicca (the title is Stieward), Dr. Raymond Buckland would later confirm that he was in fact appointed by the tradition’s founder; Dr. Buckland himself. Daven’s Journal brought to the world his objections to he man holding such a position. Why? Well because Mark Ventimigilia hadn’t changed with the times as had Dr. Buckland.
Since his own outrageous anti-gay statements of the early 70s, Dr. Buckland has professed a change of heart. But interestingly enough, after being made aware of the homophobic statements of Mark Ventimiglia, Dr. Raymond Buckland in part stated:
“I still believe that Mark is a basically good man and there is no doubt of his depth of feeling for Seax-Wica. Not to take away from that, I think he was possibly overwhelmed by events to the point of issuing proclamations and naming Eorls of both the US and the UK. In doing the latter he was basically creating a hierarchy, which was what the Seax-Wica was against in the first place. Anyway, Mark has recognized the flurry of anger and confusion that has come about and has gracefully stepped down from the position. “
http://davensjournal.com/dissassociation.xhtml
In emails reportedly written by Raymond Buckland to Mark Ventimiglia, Dr. Buckland in part said:“Mark, there is no need to apologize. You must do what you feel is right for you. I have seen all
this over many years. All you can do is know that despite all the idiots, there are others out
there like you and me who are sincere, dedicated Seax-Wicans. They are not the vocal ones, but they are there. In over forty years I think my response to AJDrew is the only one I’ve made in public (he just struck a nerve!). “
“Mark, I applaud your decision [to remain as Stiweard]! As you said, all warriors are afraid when going into battle; but true bravery is to continue on and fight!”
http://davensjournal.com/evidence.xhtml
As I understand what Dr. Raymond Buckland has said, Mark Ventimiglia is a good man who has no reason to apologize. Lets examine some of the things Mark Ventimiglia has reportedly said:“Don’t even get me started at the Jews, Christians, Islamic, etc! There is nothing good about any middle-eastern religion! Nuff said!”
“Homosexuality goes against every natural law… and I didn’t create those laws!!! And neither did any government. Those laws were ordained by the Gods themselves. If you cannot understand natural law… I don’t know what to tell you.”
“Gay people practicing Seax-Wica? No. They might masquerade as Seax-Wiccans, but they are NOT Seax-Wiccan. They are hedonists! Seax-Wica is a nature religion… it is not a “do whatever feels good” religion.”
” People use the word homophobic as it is a bad thing, forgetting that the real problem is the immoral act of homosexuality!”
Mark Ventimiglia threatens to out a man from the broom closet if the man continues to speak in opposition to him. Ventimiglia is very, very clear that the man lives in the bible belt and intends to cost the man his job. He then goes on to say:
“Same goes for the filthy practice of homosexuality.”
“Even Gardner was against homosexuality.”
“I am the Stiweard of Seax-Wica and Ray [Dr. Raymond Buckland] is behind me 100%. Need I say more?”
http://davensjournal.com/evidence.xhtml
Note: Although Mark Ventimiglia’s statements sound almost identical to what Raymond Buckland put out in the 70s, the timeline for this homophobia was 2003.In one of his emails, Dr. Raymond Buckland advised Mark Ventimiglia not to participate in forums and chat rooms because that is where argumentative people reside. I agree, if you are not righteous you will fail in combat. So your best bet is not to participate in combat. We live in an ever changing and expanding world. Where once people like Dr. Raymond Buckland and Mark Ventimiglia were empowered above the common pagan via publishing houses, today a great deal more ability to spread a person’s word can be found in those forums, websites, and blogs that the old guard warns against. As the word pagan can be easily found to have roots indicating that one is a common person rather than a member of the elite, it seems that what authors fear is the pagan community itself. Best not to enter into combat with bloggers because bloggers will win as God (OB, Gods, Goddess, what ever) will life the arm and the sword of the righteous. Ah, but now we have to discuss just who this God (OB, Gods, Goddess, what ever) is in terms of the Internet.
Have you ever wondered how it is that Santa Clause sees you when you are sleeping and knows when you are awake? How does this one jolly Northpoleian know when you have been bad or good? After all, there are a lot of people in this world. I have a theory. I think Santa Clause is really Mommy Clause, Daddy Clause, and all the other kith and kin who give gifts (or coal). I think God (OB, Gods, Goddess, what ever) is like Santa Clause. Like Santa Clause, s/he is us or maybe in part us. Think of Mother Nature. Is she not the collective of all things natural?
So when we post things to our webpages, forums, and blogs we are putting our words in front of God (OB, Gods, Goddess, what ever), when we secret them away in personal emails which are distinctly different than what we state publicly we are attempting to hide from God (OB, Gods, Goddess, what ever), and when we lock them up in a commercial book intended to generate profit then we are attempting to profit from our communications with God (OB, Gods, Goddess, what ever). Not an all together bad thing, but kin to the medieval churches who charged for prayers. Yes, priests have to be paid so do authors. Everyone has bills to pay.
But when you have to pay a priest to pay for you, you are dissempowered and at the mercy of the dictates of that priest and his church in much the same way the pre-internet and especially pre-web II days when our opinion was shaped only by the words of a select few authors. In that system, there was very little combat. Very few swords and hands to be lifted by God (OB, Gods, Goddess, what ever). Today, we live in a different world.
Davin brought a challenge to that world. He brought combat before the eyes of God (you) and although that combat continues (the acceptance of homosexuality within Wicca), I suspect the hand and sword of the righteous is being lifted by God (OB, Gods, Goddess, what ever) and the homophobes are being defeated. Unfortunately, such combat is a slow process compared to a couple of knights whacking each other with swords. And that brings me to the point of this post.
What could Daven accomplish if he used his great powers for good? What could I accomplish if I used my great powers for good? What would you accomplish if you used your great powers for good? What could any of us accomplish while in the commission of something righteous rather than frivolous?
Recently, there have been awfully negative comments about Daven’s Journal, his association with a web site called the Bunny Trail and a joke he played on a chap who uses the screen name Elder Ravenfire and derivatives of that name.
http://pagannation.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showthreaded/Number/91921
In one of the threads, Daven was called an “ass”. Maybe he is. I do not have an opinion. I did, however, observe a conversation between Daven and Incorrigible at Pagan Nation many years ago which gave me reason to believe some people would share that opinion. I would quote it but it but I believe it was from a time before the current forum system was in place. Prior to that, we hosted our own servers which were damaged by a flood.The story goes something like this. At the dead dog party of the Real Witches Ball one year, Daven and Mystie Dragonfly played spank and tickle (SM / BD) games complete with black leather toys / tools in front of an 11 year old girl. The girls father, screen name Incorrigible, felt it was inappropriate conduct. Davin felt that it was a private party and the 11-year-old girl should not have been present. My thinking was that it was obvious that RWB needed to be clearer about what is acceptable behavior and what is not. A war of words broke out. Shortly there after, I was advised that Daven launched an I hate A.J. Drew section on his web site. I might have looked at it. I do not recall.
Ah, finally the end of this story. What if instead of arguing with Incorrigible, Daven had put that energy to work on a cause that could be called righteous? Not that making your view known is unrighteous, but it hardly seems to compare to addressing such things as he had previously addressed in the material quoted above. What if instead of spending all that time and energy creating an I hate A.J. Drew section to his web site, he had used that time and energy for an effort similar to the homophobia he once fought? What if instead of spending the time and energy on the Bunny Trail and the efforts against Elder Ravenfire, he used his mighty powers for good? Would God (OB, Gods, Goddess, what ever) not strengthen his arm and sword in his righteous pursuit?
Again, I am not saying that I think there is anything wrong with expressing ones self on minor issues. Frankly, I think the email Daven sent to Elder Ravenfire was a hoot. But I do not think the issue is large enough for divine intervention.
“With god all things are possible” does not mean that without God (OB, Gods, Goddess, what ever) all things are impossible. It just means God (OB, Gods, Goddess, what ever) will help when S/he takes notice. I suspect S/he has a mighty busy schedule.
We have all done the same thing. I know I have put great effort into things that just do not matter. I think maybe it is because they do not matter that they go on and on in a vicious circle. They don’t matter so we receive no help from God (OB, Gods, Goddess, what ever), so there is no resolution, so we continue.. and continue… and continue…. But I don’t think we have all considered the matter in the terms I have discussed here and I hope this post helps to cause folk to do just that.
Search your hearts for the difference between right and wrong, then live for the fulfillment of what is right and the defeat of what is wrong. Live righteously and remember that with God (OB, Gods, Goddess, what ever) all things really are possible.
3 Responses to ““…the real problem is the immoral act of homosexuality””
while I have no problem with consenting adults do..If there children involved in the picture certain precautions have to be made, That young impressionable girl should NOT have been in that room, on the same note Draven and Mystie should have both had some sense of moral sensibility in that situation..While I feel sex is natural does not mean that children should have a front row seat or be a part of the program!.
By gina on Apr 6, 2008
gina - as I recall, Daven argued that it was not sexual and cited gardnerian binding and flogging. Incorrigable dissagreed. I figure it is a clear example that your sense of things is not shared by all folk who might attend an event with the word Witch in the title, so more clear statements about conduct were required.
Later, as I became more involved with my own family (having kids will do that) I started to realize that rather than making rules I would rather just not attract people with such different views on things.
By A.J. Drew on Apr 7, 2008
Hey, you know you made me think of Sacrates and what we discussed about him in Philosophy class in your last statements.
By Raineyes on May 16, 2008